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TransplantBuddies.org Forums » Kidney - Pancreas Transplant » Archive through September 05, 2010 » Green Tea « Previous Next »
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jaimeskidney
Member
Username: Jaimeskidney

Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I saw a post about not drinking green tea - in particular iced green tea - I think Cisco posted it. My transplant center has not told me it's bad when I asked so I'm curious about it.

Thanks!
Carol with Jaime's Kidney :-)
Kidney Transplant 12/13/07
Loyola Medical Center - Maywood, IL
CiscoKidney07
Forum Leader
Username: Gregg

Post Number: 3816
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Here is what I know. We went to a seminar in Chicago for transplant patients of all types. We talked with a nurse who mentioned that they were having problems with patients who had wild swings in their prograf levels from drinking green tea. Iced or warm, she said it would be a good idea to abstain from it. I do not know what transplant unit she was from, but that is the story. I would still drink it if I thought it would not do harm.
There are not too many things in life worth working my butt off for, but my health is one of them
ed
Member
Username: Ed2001

Post Number: 89
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

I would agree with Cisco. A lot of teas use various herbs many of which affect prograf or cyclosporine levels either way, andoften quite significantly.
Kidney Transplant
April 2001
jaimeskidney
Member
Username: Jaimeskidney

Post Number: 58
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Interesting. I know not to use herbal teas of any kinds...I really miss several of them - but green tea...hmmm....Cisco sure wish you could remember which hospital in Chicago since I live here. Ahh well.

Thanks!
Carol with Jaime's Kidney :-)
Kidney Transplant 12/13/07
Loyola Medical Center - Maywood, IL
Lori
Member
Username: Lorikim

Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 10:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Basically the only thing I drink is Arizona diet green tea (peach). I drink water occasionally, as well as diet coke, but I go through about a gallon of the Arizona every 2-3 days or so.
Hostess Rise
Board Administrator
Username: Rise

Post Number: 14110
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Was this the thread you were looking for?
http://www.transplantbuddies.org/tbx/messages/7/146378.html?1282305983

If you go to the search engine up top left, type in green tea, many threads will come up.
Cystic Fibrosis- dx at 2yrs. -2nd double lung tx-05
Debra Fertel MD- Med. Dir. Lung Transplant/Pulmonary Hypertension Programs
Jackson Memorial Hospital

Si Pham MD, Professor of Surgery, Dir. of Thoracic Transplant & Artificial Heart Program-Miam Transplant Institute

Anas Hadeh MD, Cleveland Clinic, Weston, Florida
CF consultant- Critical Care and Sleep Medicine

Sharing Knowledge is an Invaluable Experience
Transplant Friends & Chat
Questions- Contact Hostess Rise'
CiscoKidney07
Forum Leader
Username: Gregg

Post Number: 3817
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 07:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

You folks can do what you want to do. The information is there. I would rather be safe than sorry.
There are not too many things in life worth working my butt off for, but my health is one of them
Hostess Rise
Board Administrator
Username: Rise

Post Number: 14114
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 07:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Before I knew about green tea being bad for us, several years ago when I had a cold, I had some green tea.

I am a big believer in energy testing and tested strong to green tea.

____________I then tested two days later to the same tea and tested very weak My body knew that after awhile there was an unsafe interaction with my meds and the energy test was very weak.

For those who do not know what energy testing is, you can look this up on google under muscle testing or energy testing. There is also a sway test you can learn (simple to learn). This is all done with your own bodies energies to asking yourself questions. Sounds very weird and I cracked up and almost fell to the floor from laughter when I first witnessed this test. In my opinion learning this test, is a great way to find answers for when you are in doubt about any food or vitamin.

There are many unknown ingredients that will interact with our meds.
Cystic Fibrosis- dx at 2yrs. -2nd double lung tx-05
Debra Fertel MD- Med. Dir. Lung Transplant/Pulmonary Hypertension Programs
Jackson Memorial Hospital

Si Pham MD, Professor of Surgery, Dir. of Thoracic Transplant & Artificial Heart Program-Miam Transplant Institute

Anas Hadeh MD, Cleveland Clinic, Weston, Florida
CF consultant- Critical Care and Sleep Medicine

Sharing Knowledge is an Invaluable Experience
Transplant Friends & Chat
Questions- Contact Hostess Rise'
regscott
Member
Username: Regscott

Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 01:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Green tea is supposed to help boost immune system levels. When you're on an immunosuppressant, you don't want to be taking anything that will help increase your immunity as they are contradictory to your immunosuppressants. This includes green tea, echinacea, certain types of mushroom extracts (not food or hallucinogenic mushroom, but ones that are supposed to help boost immunity), etc.

When I went through my transplant eval at Mayo Jacksonville, green tea of any variety and from any source, hot, cold, in foods, etc., were designated as off limits for post-transplant patients. The details aren't fully understood, but they put it in the better safe than sorry category. They also include any products with grapefruit and grapefruit extract, to include the fruit wash solutions used in many restaurants to clean their salad ingredients, etc.

Cheers,
Ruth
Ruth
Pre-dual liver and kidney
Polycystic Kidney Disease and Polycystic Liver Disease (PKD/PLD)
Mis
Member
Username: Mis

Post Number: 72
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 10:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

thanks for posting this I drink tea from time to time. and now knowing that it could effect my prograf levels, I will proably stay away. another food that I have heard to stay away from was pomegrante.
Melissa
Recived Kidney/Pancreas Oct 30.2008
U of Minnesota-Fairview
John M
Member
Username: Jam1107

Post Number: 93
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Thanks for the information. I rarely drink tea, but have had green tea a few times since I've been transplanted. I will stop now -- not worth the risk -- even if the information is only anecdotal at this point.

John
Pancreas alone transplant 4/13/04; rejected 2/07; removed 5/31/07.
Second pancreas transplant received 11/11/08.
NY Presbyterian/Cornell Medical Center, NY
miocean
Member
Username: Miocean

Post Number: 17
Registered: 07-2010
Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 10:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Interesting. I have been drinking a lot of iced tea, trying to cut back on diet coke. Some of it has been green tea. My program levels fluctuate a lot. I'll cut it out and see what happens.

miocean
Diffuse Scleroderma
Kidney Transplant March 11, 2010
St. Barnabas Medical Center, Livingston, NJ
regscott
Member
Username: Regscott

Post Number: 26
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Mis,
You're right! Pomegranate is now in the same category as grapefruit, but it theoretically takes a lot (the large bottle of POM) to have an effect. Then again, the same supposedly applies to grapefruit as well, but the recommendation is to avoid it entirely. Discretion being the better part of valor and considering what is on the line when talking about saving donated organs, it's best to avoid pomegranate (fruit and juice) as well as grapefruit entirely.

And do NOT eat star fruit; it has a toxin that can cause kidney failure (all of these should be on a poster in every nephrologist's office--if I were a benevolent dictator for a day....).

Cheers,
Ruth
Ruth
Pre-dual liver and kidney
Polycystic Kidney Disease and Polycystic Liver Disease (PKD/PLD)
Tedge
Member
Username: Tej88

Post Number: 138
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

On the other hand, I have seen a study done on green tea which shows it will protect the body from the damaging effects of the prograf (eg nephrotoxicity?). I forget where I found this now, somewhere on the internet! But not to be drunk close to the time the prograf is taken as it seems it may alter the way the prograf is absorbed as has been discussed.

Here I am talking about actual green tea, made with tea leaves.

Some people here have also mentioned iced green tea, in a can by the sounds of it?? Not one I have seen before. I looked up the ingredients as it doesn't really sound like proper green tea.

For example http://www.healthcastle.com/lipton-ice-greentea.shtml gives the ingredients for Liptons "green tea".

I would say that the green tea element of this drink would likely be pretty small & probably not very active in any way after processing. Therefore not much good to the body OR any harm as concerns prograf???

I would think that the other ingredients of this drink such as high fructose corn syrup, colours, additives & other chemicals are going to do you more harm than anything else. I wouldn't go near it myself. May as well drink Coke.

After my transplant I asked the doctor, pharmacist & dietician about green tea. They weren't worried about me drinking it, but agreed a couple of cups a day would be plenty. I don't drink it too close to prograf dose time. I have been cautious & watched my prograf levels. They have been good.

Just my personal opinion & I do agree we need to check things out carefully if we are worried about them.
GlomeruloNephritis dx October 1978
CAPD 18months
Kidney tx 4th July 1983 New Zealand.
CAPD 10 months
2nd Kidney tx 9th July 2010 New Zealand
God gives me mountains to climb and the strength to climb them.
jaimeskidney
Member
Username: Jaimeskidney

Post Number: 59
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 09:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Interestingly as I've inquired more about this a friend of mine who is a "research queen" found this article - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18543393 - which seems to indicate that true green tea (which is what I want to drink - not the bottled stuff) might actually protect renal cells from the toxicity of prograf...at least if I'm understanding it correctly. I sent it to my transplant coordinator and she seemed to concur.

An ongoing discussion... :-)
Carol with Jaime's Kidney :-)
Kidney Transplant 12/13/07
Loyola Medical Center - Maywood, IL
jaimeskidney
Member
Username: Jaimeskidney

Post Number: 60
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

This is from my uber-brilliant friend who has his doctorate in chemistry. He has many medical issues himself and so has done a LOT of this kind of research. Perhaps this is the ultimate answer:

" I have looked into the question about green tea and formed an opinion (no surprise there! lol) As you know, Tacrolimus decreases the activity of the immune system so that a person's body has less chance of rejecting an organ transplant as "foreign" material. There is also evidence from that (very well done) biochemical study you referenced that shows that several compounds in green tea help prevent Tacrolimus from killing kidney cells, one of its major side effects that is a big problem, especially for people like Carol who have had trouble with kidney problems in the past. What green tea actually inhibits is a mechanism called "apoptosis" where kidney cells (or any other cells) start a process called "programmed cell death" (PCD), in which the cells basically commit suicide. (The reasons why they do this could be a whole lecture in biochem by itself : ) Some studies have shown that green tea may also increase the activity of the immune system in general, which would sort of counteract the effect of Tacrolimus trying to decrease the immune system to stop organ rejection.

My experience with the herbs that supposedly increase immune function is that, if there is any effect at all, it is very mild and may affect only certain antibodies, not the entire immune system. The only one that may have an effect I consider to be enough to talk about is Echinacea, which does seem to increase immune function in some people, but even for this herb, the effect is very mild. By contrast, the protection of kidney cells by green tea extracts was a very potent effect that occurred at very low doses of the green tea compounds. From my reading, I think that the protection of the kidney cells by green tea is far more beneficial for Carol that any effect it would have on increasing the chance of organ rejection. I think it would be like worrying about taking an antibiotic to cure your double pneumonia because it might give you an upset stomach. So, I think green tea is a great idea, and I am extremely impressed by the great study reported in the paper you sent. I learned something, because this may be the protection of the kidney cells from Tacrolimus toxicity is by far one of the strongest effects by an herb on anything that I have ever read about."
Carol with Jaime's Kidney :-)
Kidney Transplant 12/13/07
Loyola Medical Center - Maywood, IL
Karen R.
Forum Leader
Username: Relivkaren

Post Number: 4764
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 07:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Wow! Very interesting info on green tea. What about black tea?

Here's my experience. Could be totally coincidental, but this is what has happened to me. My prograf levels fluctuated tremendously the first 5-6 months post transplant. Around May - when it started getting warmer I started drinking iced tea. I use black tea and put cinnamon in it. Then I started drinking hot tea in the mornings and iced tea during the day. Not a huge amount, but more than I had been drinking before.

Since June, my prograf levels have been stable and my dose has not been adjusted. It could be that body has just gotten used to the meds, but obviously it has not been affected by drinking black tea.

I used to drink green tea exclusively - before I got sick. I quit drinking it because I was eliminating everything from my diet to see if it had an effect on my breathing. Just wishful thinking on my part. Obviously it was the disease that was causing the breathing problem?!?!? LOL!

Anyways...I am totally intrigued by this information that green tea may protect kidney cells from prograf. I think I will see what my transplant doctor knows about green tea. Maybe my coordinator can ask the transplant pharmacologist. He helped me with my decision on taking digestive enzymes.

Let's keep researching this. Wouldn't it be great if green tea really did have a protective affect on the kidneys. :-)

Thanks all for such great info!

God Bless!}
Karen
Dx: BOOP - May 2006. Rediagnosed with Bronchiolitis Obliterans Nov. 2006
Double lung transplant on Dec. 1st, 2009
Cleveland Clinic

Ohio, USA

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
Tedge
Member
Username: Tej88

Post Number: 140
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 04:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Cool, thanks for the link on the protective attributes of green tea. Looks something like the one I saw a while back, but lost. Was a bit technical!

The opinion from your chemist friend is great, thanks for passing that on. I feel even more comfortable with drinking green tea now. Will also have another chat to the nephrologist about it also.
GlomeruloNephritis dx October 1978
CAPD 18months
Kidney tx 4th July 1983 New Zealand.
CAPD 10 months
2nd Kidney tx 9th July 2010 New Zealand
God gives me mountains to climb and the strength to climb them.

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